the W button behind the gear handle

[asaf]

I have XC70 2002 ,
i have no experiance with 4 wheel drive , can someone explain what does that button (W) do , i know it is used for winter time , should i turn it on in bumpy roads , sand , can it hurt the transmition if i use it on regular road ? ?
I hope someone can help me here ,
thank you guys.

[JRL]

Don't you have an owners manual?
If so, READ IT, if not GET ONE

I'll make this simple, unless you're on ICE, do NOT use it.
The transmission starts out in 3rd gear in "W" (winter mode) and with these transmissions being so finicky, best NOT to use it.
...and NEVER use it for the sake of using it, why would you anyway?
These transmissions are very glitchy, so don't so anything out of the ordinary

[the4epps]

When I bought my car, they said it was for wet or icy roads. I turn it on when it's raining (it only works when you are in "Drive"). It delays your acceleration so that you don't spin out when pulling out into traffic on slippery roads. Mine works very well.

[PJ810]

It would need to be exceptionally slippery would you want to use Winter mode. I think it may make more sense for the 2WD models, but with AWD you're hardly going to need it.

[Jorge-789995]

Don't you have an owners manual?
If so, READ IT, if not GET ONE



Asaf,

Wow! Your first post and that is the response you get. Unbelievable!
First let me welcome you to the forum and congrats on what I assume is a "new-to-you" 02 V70 XC. I know you cannot tell it from your initial interaction with the group, but most of us (99%) are courteous and respectful. I could summarize this whole forum as having a lot of class. JRL is an exception.
I have a .pdf copy of an owners manual that I'd be happy to send if you need one. Let me know.

[Forkster]

Don't you have an owners manual?
If so, READ IT, if not GET ONE

I'll make this simple, unless you're on ICE, do NOT use it.
The transmission starts out in 3rd gear in "W" (winter mode) and with these transmissions being so finicky, best NOT to use it.
...and NEVER use it for the sake of using it, why would you anyway?
These transmissions are very glitchy, so don't so anything out of the ordinary
Wow JRL. Ferget ur forum manners? I'm not getting that warm and fuzzy feeling from your posting. :)

Asaf - like Jorge, welcome to the XC forum, great question. I've never really thought about my W button much. Where do you live? I'm in Alberta Canada and we get a lot of 'crappy' weather hence the W button may come in handy now and then. :)

[Aviator]

I know you cannot tell it from your initial interaction with the group, but most of us (99%) are courteous and respectful. I could summarize this whole forum as having a lot of class. JRL is an exception.


Well put Mr. Wordsmith !!

Dave.

[John@CdnRockies]

Asaf, first of all "welcome to the group". The "W" button is seldom used as it starts your car in 3rd gear. This is helpful on icy roads but would not be required for rain or gravel roads.

I live in the Rocky Mountains where winter snow conditions are severe. I have only used the "W" feature perhaps 5 times over the past 3 years as gentle acceleration with our AWD systems avoids any slippage.

John

[TrueBlue]

bought an 06 oil burner. It's got loads of torque at the bottom end. So when stuck in traffic tail backs a gentle prod on the ?? pedal (- can't call it a gas pedal in a diesel can I?) makes the car rush forward.

One day I tried the "W" button, now the old girl picks up her skirts gently - and a little tweak on the aforementioned pedal just gently wafts me forward at the pace that I want.

Problem sorted.

Give it a whirl - and you'll see what I mean. Works in a petrol version as well.

[Aviator]

So when stuck in traffic tail backs a gentle prod on the ?? pedal (- can't call it a gas pedal in a diesel can I?)

How about throttle pedal ?[thumbup]

Dave.

[JRL]

bought an 06 oil burner. It's got loads of torque at the bottom end. So when stuck in traffic tail backs a gentle prod on the ?? pedal (- can't call it a gas pedal in a diesel can I?) makes the car rush forward.

One day I tried the "W" button, now the old girl picks up her skirts gently - and a little tweak on the aforementioned pedal just gently wafts me forward at the pace that I want.

Problem sorted.

Give it a whirl - and you'll see what I mean. Works in a petrol version as well.

Do you understand that this is VERY BAD for the transmission doing this on a regular basis?
I cannot stress this enough.
Yes, it works, it's just not good for it

[Aviator]

Do you understand that this is VERY BAD for the transmission doing this on a regular basis?
I cannot stress this enough.
Yes, it works, it's just not good for it


Could you please enlighten us all as to why this is such a bad thing for the transmission, and why we shouldn't use this feature ?? You keep harping to everyone about the detriments of the feature, but never put any meat behind your allegation. Show us some proof !! Explain to us all why YOU think this is such a bad thing !!

Dave.

[tgwillard]

I think you will find that with AWD being careful when applying power in slippery conditions will negate the need for using the W mode. Even with my wife's FWD S80, careful acceleration helps overcome slippery conditions without the need for the W mode.

[JRL]

Could you please enlighten us all as to why this is such a bad thing for the transmission, and why we shouldn't use this feature ?? You keep harping to everyone about the detriments of the feature, but never put any meat behind your allegation. Show us some proof !! Explain to us all why YOU think this is such a bad thing !!

Dave.

Be happy to in layman's terms.
Imagine you picking up a heavy suitcase with your entire hand
now, imagine doing that with 2 fingers, harder isn't it?
That's what the transmission is doing and by starting out in 3rd gear, there's a heavier than normal strain on it.
Now we all know that Volvo transmissions fail and fail quite often, so why would you voluntarily put the extra strain on it for no good reason?
It runs hotter doing that, the clutches are stressed and so on, etc.
Volvo also tells you never to change fluid :confused:
However, if you changed the fluid on you Volvo tranny from day one every 30K miles the odds of it failing are vastly reduced.
I hope that may have been a bit more clear

[blkdiamond]

For some reason I thought I read somewhere that it puts the transmission in 2nd gear, not 3rd when you start. I may be wrong though.

[ORGramps]

I had a different experience a couple weeks ago when we traveled to Seattle. Somehow when something was set on the counsole, the "W" buttom was activated. I didn't notice it or anything unusual until I was stopped at a traffic light going up one of the city hills. The car made it without a lot of strain, but it was different. I am now very careful about setting anything on that almost horizontal surface.

[JRL]

For some reason I thought I read somewhere that it puts the transmission in 2nd gear, not 3rd when you start. I may be wrong though.

I think the 4 speeds start in 2nd and the 5 speeds start in 3rd.
(I may be wrong, it's possible,[mad2] as I never use it)
I'll check it on our '00 R when my wife gets back in town with it

[steelo]

Dear JRL and other Volvo XC enthusiasts.
My name is Steve and I live in Australia.
May I apologise straight away for asking questions from the forum without offering anything in return.
I ummed and aaghed for a couple of weeks before buying my brother in laws 2001 XC 70 with 75K on the clock, (he bought the latest XC90) thinking that this model (new shape) had the more reliable Haldex transmission instead of the other one. It' had been impeccably serviced / maintained and had new tyres fitted before I bought it and found your site. I bought the car, I do love it but my number one concern is the tranny failing. I have been reading a number of threads on this site.
Would I be correct in assuming the following may well enhance the longevity of my transmission and engine.

Do I
Make sure the Volvo recall for the stop start (I think that's what it was called) has been carried out.
Replace the transmission fluid ASAP and continue to replace every 2 service cycles. (30K) Thanks JRL.
Drop the engine oil either every 5K or 7.5K.
Get a spare mag wheel, fit it with a new tyre identical to the others and cycle it into a rotation with the other 4 every 5K or 7.5K (when the oil gets changed) so that disparate tyre sizes are never a problem in a flat tyre situation. Will a full size spare fit into boot under kids seat option?
Use the manual shifter when towing my boat so the transmission doesn't get strained under load.
Anything else?

Or
Cut my losses, sell the car ASAP and keep using my magic 1998 V70 T5 with 240K on the clock (and all the other little problems)
Thanking you for your interest.

[JRL]

I would do the following;


Dear JRL and other Volvo XC enthusiasts.


Do I
Make sure the Volvo recall for the stop start (I think that's what it was called) has been carried out.

IT'S CALLED STOP NEUTRAL, NOT A RECALL JUST A SOFTWARE DOWNLOAD. IF IT'S STILL THERE, GET RID OF IT

Replace the transmission fluid ASAP and continue to replace every 2 service cycles. (30K) Thanks JRL.

GOOD IDEA. HOWEVER IF IF IT'S SHIFTING CORRECTLY NOW, JUST DRAIN AND FILL, DO NOT FLUSH AND POSSIBLY OPEN A CAN OF WORMS

Drop the engine oil either every 5K or 7.5K.

CHANGING THE OIL EVERY 5K IS ALWAYS A VERY GOOD IDEA WITH A TURBO

Get a spare mag wheel, fit it with a new tyre identical to the others and cycle it into a rotation with the other 4 every 5K or 7.5K (when the oil gets changed) so that disparate tyre sizes are never a problem in a flat tyre situation. Will a full size spare fit into boot under kids seat option?
Use the manual shifter when towing my boat so the transmission doesn't get strained under load.

IT WILL NOT FIT IF THE XC HAS A 3RD SEAT but don't drive for very long on the donut,
(like no more than 5 miles)
This is a catch 22


Or
Cut my losses, sell the car ASAP and keep using my magic 1998 V70 T5 with 240K on the clock (and all the other little problems)
Thanking you for your interest.

THIS IS TOTALLY UP TO YOU, GOOD LUCK

[skibo]

The 'W' function is of little value with the AWD, and I agree that it can't be good for the tranny - will induce more slip and therefore more heat when starting out. If it were easy, I'd disconnect mine, as I'm not convinced my wife would notice if/when it accidentally gets activated.

I only drive the car 5% of its miles, and 1 or 2 times a year, the W button gets pushed. Who knows how many 'W starts' my baby is seeing when I'm not around to protect her?

[steelo]

Thank you JRL. Advice warmly received.
Shame about the spare. Had a nice one lined up.
Regards

[goldxc70]

The 'W' function is of little value with the AWD, and I agree that it can't be good for the tranny - will induce more slip and therefore more heat when starting out.

All the W (for Winter) mode does is to use a higher gear to move off. This is not bad for anything and is used by Mercedes as well.

I remember being taught to do this in a manual transmission car many years ago on icy or snowy roads. Also, I knew many drivers who would "skip" gears, i.e shift from 2nd. to 4th. for economy reasons.

As for leaving it on accidentally, it will probably just save you some gas :)

[JRL]

All the W (for Winter) mode does is to use a higher gear to move off. This is not bad for anything and is used by Mercedes as well.

I remember being taught to do this in a manual transmission car many years ago on icy or snowy roads. Also, I knew many drivers who would "skip" gears, i.e shift from 2nd. to 4th. for economy reasons.

As for leaving it on accidentally, it will probably just save you some gas :)
You just keep on using it then...(sigh)

[goldxc70]

Not entirely scientific but this is my experiment to "see" the effects of using the W button: normal driving conditions, stop/go traffic, dry road. W button on appeared to limit the revs to 2,000 RPM on takeoff. With it off and using same driving style, engine revved to 2,300 to 2,500 RPM.

Also, with W button on, and car stationary, moving gearshift into geartronic mode, the gear display shows 2 or 3. With it off, doing same thing, it always shows 1.

I guess if it works for you, use it; if it causes you concern, don't.

[wgriswold]

I live at 6800 feet in the Sierras and drive in snow and ice for 5 months of the year. I never use the W button. When I first got the XC I experimented with it and found it useless with my AWD model. A light touch on the throttle is all that is needed. I suspect it is a leftover feature from FWD models. It is probably cheaper to provide it for both AWD and FWD than not.

[Turchman]

It is an additional strain to start in a higher gear. It is really all about mechanical advantage; a higher gear has less mechanical advantage and therefore requires more energy to produce the same work (w=fxd). More energy in = same accel rate + heat.

The First Law of Thermodynamics (Conservation) states that energy is always conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed. In essence, energy can be converted from one form into another.

[goldxc70]

If it is an additional strain, it is a very small addition and well within the limits of all the components involved. If it prevents wheel spin, in the hands of an exuberant or careless driver, it is very worthwhile.

[JRL]

If it is an additional strain, it is a very small addition and well within the limits of all the components involved..
The hell it is

[PJ810]

You can feel it labouring though. You really wouldn't want to use it unless it's exceptionally slippery. And even then, a lighter approach to throttle usage combined with AWD should ensure you have plenty of grip.

[MoeB]

As for leaving it on accidentally, it will probably just save you some gas :)

It will also shorten the life of the transmission by creating excess friction/wear on the clutches, among other things.

[Aviator]

Friction is a force which causes the motion between two surfaces to be reduced

Excess friction is a good thing......it means NO slippage and no clutch plate wear. I've come to the conclusion that not many here have any knowledge of how an automatic transmission works.......especially JRL !!! This whole debate on whether using W mode is a good or bad thing is really starting to piss me off. Umpteen different car makers use a traction control option like this. In this day and age, with all transmissions being controlled by software, it's possible to utilise the transmission in different ways WITHOUT ill effects or concerns about longevity. In the transmission in W mode, the clutch pack for 2&3, or 3&4 (not sure which in the AW but it doesn't matter anyway) is hydraulically locked by the direction of trans oil through the valve body, by the shift solenoids and the use of the spool valves; it's simple electric over hydraulics......the same as the torque converter (the fluid coupling that uses the engine's output to move Mr. Car). Having said that, there is not going to be any slippage. Obviously, the gear ratio is going to be different, but the engine can handle this with no problem (they DO have plenty of torque !!). If ANYTHING is going to have excess strain on it, it would be the ENGINE....labouring more than usual to move the car using a different gear ratio. As long as the hydraulic principles are being applied in the transmission (which they are, [and Volvo and Aisin Warner aren't STUPID either] ), then there is NOT going to be any problem. The whole picture is NO different than using a manual box and shifting to 2 or 3. We're simply using hydraulics to do the job because it's more efficient. As far as excess heat ?.... give me a break....you're only going to get that with SLIPPAGE (which will burn the trans oil), and then there's that trans oil cooler up front, and the electric fan..... I really think it's JRL's objective to condemn as many transmissions as possible, for whatever assinine reason (could be due to his lack of knowledge with regards to how an automatic works), probably to cover his ass and call the transmission as a whole because he is not knowledgeable in the specifics of how one works, and therefore cannot diagnose problems with any degree of accuracy. Anyway sorry about the shouting (words in caps), but I thought it would be prudent to do so in order to get across some logic and accurate, real answers.

Dave.

[JRL]

Look I'm the last one to claim being an expert on automatic transmissions, far from it
and I agree with almost everything you said except about using the W function.
The reason I said it is we all know for some reason these trannies are weak, for the lack of a better word.
Why I don't really know. It's not as if Aisin Warner can't build transmissions, they can.
It may be the Volvo specs Volvo wanted or their software which we KNOW is very suspect, so why put a strain on them? (that's the one point we disagree)
Why do the knowledgable service people at Volvo say not to use the W function if at all possible.
Lexus says go ahead use it ALL the time, won't hurt a thing
There obviously is a reason

[goldxc70]

[QUOTE=Aviator;76811] I've come to the conclusion that not many here have any knowledge of how an automatic transmission works.......especially JRL !!! This whole debate on whether using W mode is a good or bad thing is really starting to piss me off. [/QUOTE

Likewise! The button is there, the manual describes how it should be used and, AFAIK, nobody from Volvo has suggested that it should not. Some of the people suggesting that it should NOT be used are the same people recommending that Volvo's directions in other areas be followed to the letter. The moral: if you cannot provide knowledgeable input through personal experience or other sources, don't pretend to be an expert. You are not helping others and look like an ass when challenged.

[Turchman]

I use the W button, when it is snowing hard. It helps, especially when starting on a hill.

For the sake of argument, it serves to effectively reduce torque at the wheels and therefore the tendency to spin your tires from a stop.

If it was a problem they would not still put it on the car after all these years.

[jckpui]

I've not had a need for the W button in the snow, as I have AWD and snow tires.

[JAZ]

I have had no problem in using the W button on slick roads and see no reason not to in certain conditions.

There is no clutch slipping in the transmission, the torque converter is doing all the slipping. If the converter lock-up clutch is engaged while the transmission is in gear, and the car is not moving, you will stall.

[Castle]

All this talk about a very useful button.

Winter mode IS useful for driving in very icy or slippery conditions. Not only does it reduce the torque to the wheels when starting out, it lowers the shift RPMs and makes shifts less abrupt - preserving traction. None of this impacts the longevity of the transmission.

My only complaint about the W button is the location. It can be accidentally activated.

Tod.

[blkdiamond]

All this talk about a very useful button.

Winter mode IS useful for driving in very icy or slippery conditions. Not only does it reduce the torque to the wheels when starting out, it lowers the shift RPMs and makes shifts less abrupt - preserving traction. None of this impacts the longevity of the transmission.

My only complaint about the W button is the location. It can be accidentally activated.

Tod.

I completely agree. I really have a hard time believing that a car company would put a feature in a vehicle that would be harmful to it.

[skibo]

... I really have a hard time believing that a car company would put a feature in a vehicle that would be harmful to it.

I'm probably making a mistake by getting into this, but here goes.....

I think we're getting hung up on this concept of 'harmful' or 'damaging'. Everything you do with a car 'damages' it to some degree - it uses up some of the car's useful life. Starting the car is harmful to it at some level - the majority of an engine's wear happens in the first minute after a cold start. So is taking it to red-line on a regular basis. So is pressing on the brakes, for that matter.

I design vehicles (not cars) and our organization has over 20 years of failure data from various customer fleets. Often one customer will see a higher than average failure rate of some component due to how he uses it. They don't all break - it may be 6% instead of 3% over some period of time, but it's there and it's often explainable. There are actually techniques for predicting how likely something is to fail or wear out based upon the duty that it sees. They are imprecise for anything but the simplist of parts, but the basic reasoning still applies.

I believe that starting from stop in W mode will induce incrementally more wear on the transmission (and possibly the engine) than starting in D - just like taking it to red-line at every stop sign will induce more engine and drive train wear than accelerating more gradually. It doesn't mean that your tranny will fail if you use it, and it doesn't mean that Volvo should or would consider eliminating this function. It just means that, over the entire fleet of XC's in the world, W users may see a higher failure rate than non-W users.

I personally find no value to it - (I drive on snow for weeks on end and have trouble breaking the wheels free) - so for me, it's not worth the increase in wear, no matter how minor it may be. For those that feel it is of value, then why not? That's why you bought the car, and nothing lasts forever.

[TrueBlue]

A comment from me about the use of the "W", gently, in slowly moving traffic on a level pavement (as I think you guys call it), seems to have stirred up a real hornets' nest!

Quite interesting though, to see a real discussion on a topic that hasn't been hammered to death in previous threads. :p

Anyway, the reason for this post is that:-

the '08 models do not have a "W" button anymore.

Gone, deleted, removed.
Reason:-
not used?
dangerous?
unnecessary as transmission improved so not needed?

I haven't a clue, just thought I'd let you know....

[steelo]

Folks.
Can I say that I just had the transmission checked today on my new second hand 2001 XC with 76K Km. Vehicle has been lovingly and supposedly regularly serviced. It has been running like a dream. All came about because top Engine mount was cracked and I did it as a preventative measure.
Mechanic found the oil trans was nearly black and replaced it.
He was firmly of the belief that the trans oil in these cars should be checked regularly and changed well before I got to it. Said it can be different driving patterns but the number one killer was idling along in city traffic in a high gear where the trans was put under pressure at low RPM's. The heat builds up and kills the oil.
Also thin plastic pipe to turbo was very hard and allowing air to bypass. replaced for 12 dollars, software to engine and trans updated and WOW, cant believe the difference.

[MoeB]

Just to clarify, my comment referred to leaving W on all the time, not to occasional use for driving on slick roads.

Friction? Once a clutch band is fully engaged, friction ends. Sure, some amount of friction is good for smooth trans shifting--in small doses. Longer slower shifts, such as when shift points are lowered to reduce torque transfer to tires...not so much. Makes the ATF turn darker, quicker.