Is legal action necessary?

[Dubhead]

Folks,
Recently I had a terrible experience with a tire dealer in Issaquah, WA. I had initially bought tires there and brought my vehicle back for a tire rotation after 5K miles. Once the vehicle was on the rack, one of the so-called "techs" brought to my attention a lot of play in the front wheels, indicating the need for tie rod replacement. I went and verified this (as I have replaced these personally on other vehicles) and noted that he was right and they were in need of replacement (vehicle is approaching 100K miles). I had the tie rods replaced and in less than a week a terrible vibration overtook the car. I drove the car to the dealer I normally get service through and a quick inspection of the car revealed the alignment was done wrong from the tire shop. I had a copy of the alignment values from the shop and it appeared that the values were all within the specified ranges from their car database, so nothing had looked out of place to me. I picked up my vehicle from the dealer and with fellow carpoolers, proceeded to drive the 40 mile commute home. The vibration was still there and very pronounced and the rear of the car began to float strangely. Before I pulled on the highway I decided to pull over and really give the tires a once over. The driverside rear tire had only 2 lug nuts on!!! The first lug nut I touched dropped off onto the ground much to the shock of the fellow carpoolers surrounding me. The other was barely finger tight! I borrowed two lugs from other tires, tightened everything up and got back on the road. My carpool and I were glad we stopped as we were at serious risk of danger on this. I know that the low-rent tire shop I went to is responsible for this and will have to compensate me in some way but I want to go about this the right way first. I am prone to serious fits of anger and do not want to do anything I will regret. I thought I would file a BBB claim among other things but thought it might be a good idea to take them to court for negligence. The tech should be fired at the least for terrible work methods and lack of attention to detail. I mean this a tire shop that can't get an alignment right nor torque the lugs back down before handing a car back to a customer?? I had a bad feeling in the gut when I let them do the tie rod work and this all but confirmed it.
So....any great ideas on how to nail this shop's balls to the wall?? [cussing]

Dubhead

[MoeB]

No, legal action is not necessary, although given the highly litigious nature of people these days you'd be tempted to think it was. Vovlo lug bolts have been known to occasionally work loose, even after being torqued properly. You've already tried and convicted the tech and want his head (or at least his job) on a platter. Do you really know what happened? I sure don't.

[JRL]

.....I know that the low-rent tire shop I went to.........[cussing]

Dubhead

Perhaps you being CHEAP had something to do with this???????

[Aviator]

Is JRL having some sort of self esteem / small weenie problem ? Some of your posts to simple and honest queries from some pretty honest to goodness people are a bit brash and unbecoming. We all do the best we can with what we have and we all know that f***ups can occur with anyone anywhere, including your place of employment. We can't all afford $250 dollars each for tires or get used to two foot drivers (like we need more of those !!), and the list goes on. As a senior member on this forum, I thought you would portray yourself as a wise one, and not a smartass !!

Dave.

[tgwillard]

My advice is to relate your experience to the manager of the tire store and see what relief/compensation is offered you. Seeking relief in the courts should be a last resort because of the time involved and lack of direct evidence (eye witnesses, etc) It is possible the tire store manager has had similar complaints against this particular employee. You won't know until you talk with the manager.

[Blackstone]

[cussing]I recently was on a road trip with my Dodge Caravan. I decided not to take the Volvo since I was camping and needed the extra space.

I ended up with a flat tire so I drove the car to one of the largest national tire shops in Canada and they told me the tire could not be repaired. So I got 2 new tires installed on the front and drove off back to my camping location. I got 25 KM out of town and was driving at 105 KM/Hr. when all of the sudden the right drivers side tire exploded and I went into the oncomming lane and then almost off the road. I could not believe that one of the new tires literally exploded with such force that my left ear was ringing. Not to mention being put in a potentially life threatening situation.

I put the spare back on and drove back to the tire shop. We looked at the tire and it was obvious that the tire installer tore the bead with the tire machine. Apparently one of their junior installers. They installed 2 new tires and were appologetic.

I called their head office to report this incident and they said they would bring it up in next months safety meeting. I am still not very satisfied with their response and was thinking of reporting this to some government agency etc.

I would recommend checking any tire installations, including checking the lug nuts and how the tires were installed. Otherwise you could end up seriously injured or dead.

[John@CdnRockies]

As of last year - our local Kal-O-Tire tire shop insists we return the cars in less than 100km for a 2nd hand tightening (no charge). This is standard practice with all customer vehicles so they may also have experienced loosening of lugs. I expect this problem may be more common than most of us realize as they never did this before.

I would have a firm chat with the manager. Can't see you winning anything substantial by going through the courts given the effort involved. An attentive local manager looks to me to be your best bet as you have no witnesses of work performance - just the results after being on the road (though I support your suspicion of shoddy workmanship).

John

[Dubhead]

The comment of being cheap is a trite laugh...thanks.[thumbup] I have had many (if not more) issues going to the dealer for the past 4.5 years so price has nothing to do with comptency, accountability and quality of service. The original reason I was taking my car back to the "low-rent" tire dealer (a national chain I might add) is that I had purchased some basic tires to replace the TERRIBLE Pirelli Scorpians that the vehicle came stocked with, so that I might sell it with at least 20K's worth of tread for a new owner and I could buy an XC90. So taking the car back for rotation was how this got started and worse. The bummer of all this is that I have had the tranny replaced TWICE under warranty from Volvo and the tech at the low-rent joint noticed that I was also getting vibration from a blown passenger right axle. This of course started into the ever-so-classic finger pointing between the dealer and the low-rent tire shop. What a crock. The bad second tranny install is clearly the dealer's fault as they undoubtedly smacked the axle a few times on the end to get it to mate with the transmission and probably wanged it up to precipitate the vibration I noticed the moment I picked it up. I had taken it back TWICE to the dealer complaining about the vibration, the first time the dealer tech said they couldn't replicate the problem, second time the tech heard/felt the vibration and thought it might be an engine mount issue or similar but to make sure to get my wheels checked (at the low-rent place) and make sure the are balanced and aligned and not causing this vibration also. Let's just say the dealer pushed me back to the tire retailer to "make sure" it wasn't something on their end. Unfortunately we all know how that ended so now I have two shops with two separate and very slightly connected issues to which no one wants to be accountable for.
I'll be damned [nonono] f I pay for the axle replacement that has been accelerated by a poor second tranny install. The other axle is solid as a rock and I don't drive anything but smooth highway daily.

So in resolution...I had them verify no extra damage occurred to the wheel lug posts or otherwise upon my return and performed another alignment. Of course they didn't have the small 14mm lug nuts on hand and had to order them from...tah dah, the dealer....and I will be back to waste another 10 minutes with those jerks to get those tossed on tomorrow. I used to do all my car work myself (when I had a lift and space and time), now that I let other idiots do it, the sh*t hits the fan 9 times out of 10. Time to get a better job, retire early and BS around fixing this car for the rest of it's life.

Dubhead [mad2]

[1Lieutenant]

Not really sure what would be your legal complaint.

1. Did the tech at the first place inadequately tighten the lugs or were they torqued and loosened later?
2. Was the alignment improperly done (as the dealer contends) or was it accurate as your spec sheet shows?
3. If the wheels were loose why did the dealer not see this problem before releasing the car to you. (I would assume he/she saw missing lug bolts and probably tilted wheels)
4. Despite a scary and dangerous experience, no one was injured and no property damage done.

Except to be certain that the manager is aware of possible shoddy workmanship on the part of the technician (not conclusive) I don't see this as a legal case. Not a lawyer, could definitly be wrong. If it is proved that it was poor workmanship then you would certainly be due good will. Perhaps reimbursement for work completed.

Steve

[Turchman]

This is a good lesson for everyone!
Always check your lug nuts after about 50 miles of driving and retorque them. Aluminum wheels are prone to warp a small amount and need to be retorqued after changing tires or rotating.

I had the exact same thing happen to me in 1992 at a Tires Plus store in Duluth. I was driving across a long (and high) bridge and felt a vibration, I pulled over and 3 lug nuts were gone. Scary stuff!

It happens, but I always at least finger test the wheels after having work done.

[Jorge-789995]

Is JRL having some sort of self esteem / small weenie problem ? Some of your posts to simple and honest queries from some pretty honest to goodness people are a bit brash and unbecoming. As a senior member on this forum, I thought you would portray yourself as a wise one, and not a smartass !!

Dave.

Dave,

I could not agree more. There is a long history of members of this site helping each other and occasionally disagreeing respectfully and with class. There are very few exceptions to this. Many times, I find his posts less than useless. The odd thing is that he has been a member since April of 03, but until 6-8 months ago he only had 30-40 posts. Then all of a sudden, he's got a snide comment about nearly everything.

[Dubhead]

The continuing saga...
I have gotten the tire dealer to make good on some of the issues but they never admitted fault as they had obtained the dealer service history through a connection and found that I had taken in my vehicle for service following service from them. That gave the tire shop grounds to say that the dealership may have been responsible. The dealer claims to have never removed my tires...hmmm. Another interesting observation from the tire shop manager was that the vibration I was originally noticing in my car (long before the tire stuff) is coming from a bad front passenger-side axle. The driver-side axle is quite solid and has no play. I told them the dealer had replaced the transmission in the car TWICE and that I had brought it back to the dealer a few times complaining about the vibration (evidently from the axle) and they were not able to isolate the problem. The tire manager said that to install the transmissions they can screw up the reinstallation of the axles because they have to bang the end to get it to seat properly. He said if that was not done correctly it will send your axle off to its demise. If that is the case this axle failure should be covered under the original extended warranty (now expired) that replaced the transmission both times. The only case I have against my dealer is that I have brought the vehicle in a few times complaining of vibration they cannot isolate. I just know the dealer is going to say it is not their fault and that I hit a pothole or something. I never drive on anything but smooth asphalt.
I really don't feel like playing the he says, she says game with the dealer and the tire shop either. Not sure how to proceed with this one except to bring it in, have them evaluate the issue. Hopefully they also see I have a bad axle and maybe they offer to repair it as it was their fault :D but since we know they want to make more money on me, I will have to take it home and file a BBB claim against the dealership, which sucks because they have been pretty good to me for the most part. This is my speculation though...we'll see what happens...any ideas?? :confused:

Dubhead

[MoeB]

The fact that the missing lug bolts were noticed less than 40 miles after the car was just inspected at a Volvo dealer for excess vibration doesn't reflect well on the dealer's service tech, regardless of who did or didn't remove tires. Also, your trust in the tire shop's observations about the bad front axle and other issues gives me the impression you have less faith in the dealer's competence than the tire shop's. Anyway, if it were me I would try to find a reputable independent Volvo shop and get a second opinion. If the axle was damaged during the trans install(s), it may be possible to document that and get it covered by warranty.

How long ago was the second trans replacement?