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  1. #1
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    Default Mobil 1 synthetic 3309 vs Valvoline Max Life Full Synthetic

    Question: is Valvoline Max Life a suitable transmission fluid for a Volvo XC70? And if it isn't, would it cause a sharp uptick in slippage?

  2. #2
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    Oct 2018
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    I have a 2001 volvo V70 XC with about 150,000 miles on it. A few months ago, the check engine light came on, though at the time I assumed it had to do with emmissions, since I'd just replaced another emmissions part a month before. A couple months later, coming back from a two hour highway drive in what passes for summer in Northern Minnesota, the transmission service required warning came on, and the vehicle dropped into limp home mode.
    Until it did that, it showed no notable change in shifting or performance, and hadn't given me any cause for concern over the drive. I sidelined it until I had time to work on it, pulled the trouble codes, and recieved a P0740. Based on what I saw on here, and other forums, it looked like dirty, or old transmission fluid was the cheap repair to start with.
    So, my father did his own research, and bought Valvoline transmission fluid. The part number that kicks out as being the right fluid is shown on the back of the bottle. He did the flush, per what we'd read on here, and seein in youtube videos, and he got fluid back that matched the color of the new fluid. The fluid wasn't overly dark and didn't smell burned.
    I drove it about 50 miles around the area, noticing small slips and delays which hadn't been there before. Then I drove it to work in the rain. It wouldn't stay in high gear, kept downshifting, and then dropped into limp home mode again.
    I haven't moved it since.
    Is it possible that incorrect transmission fluid is making the problem worse? Or did the rain make something more obvious?
    Does this cascade of problems sound like a transmission failure, or could replacing the valve body or solenoids be a viable solution?
    None of the transmission shops I can reach/have it towed to will touch it, so if its going to be fixed, its my hands that are going to do it.
    Any suggestions?

  3. #3
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    Mar 2008
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    Western Head, Nova Scotia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner_M View Post
    Question: is Valvoline Max Life a suitable transmission fluid for a Volvo XC70? And if it isn't, would it cause a sharp uptick in slippage?
    I've used and continue to use MaxLife in all 3 of the P2s I've had, including my VR. I also run an external PH-16 filter setup as Astro has documented. Back to MaxLife, I ended up using it after trying Mobil 3309, Toyota IV, Asin, and Eneos and have found it to work the best of all of them. Added all up I've probably used it for well over 100K kms.

    Cheers,

    Bill
    Western Head, NS CDN

    '08 BMW 750i (Black Sapphire)-204K kms to-date
    '05 XC70 (Lava Sand)-296K kms to-date
    '02 V70XC-gone @393K kms
    '05 V70R (Magic Blue)-120K mi to-date - gone
    '96 854R (Red)-real CDN-spec 5-speed R - gone @270k kms
    And other Volvos and misc. Euro stuff

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Cumbria, UK. Maine USA.
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    Both my XC's use it, the stuff meets the requirements, I drain and refill the AT sump at every oil change with Valvoline Maxlife. Never an issue with it, if your trans is slipping and you think the ATF is the reason drain it out and try another brand, my only problem now is reading the dipstick as the ATF is so clean as to be almost clear,
    Last edited by AKAMick; 10-27-2018 at 07:41 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Virginia Beach
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    Maxlife wouldn’t cause a sharp uptick in slippage.

    Care to elaborate?

    By the way, there is Mobil 3309, and there is Mobil 1 ATF. Mobil 3309 is a mineral oil base, as is Genuine Volvo fluid. Nothing wrong with a mineral base, but your thread topic isn’t exactly accurate, no such thing as 3309 synthetic Mobil fluid....
    Last edited by Astro14; 10-24-2018 at 05:56 AM.
    Current Fleet:
    2016 Tundra Crewmax 4WD 1794
    2005 MB S600 (126K, Michelin AS4, HPL 0W40)
    2005 MB SL600 (55K Michelin AS4, Mobil 1 0W40)
    2004 V70R (143K, six speed M66, HPL 5W40)
    2004 XC90 (235K, HPL 0W30 Euro)
    2002 V70-XC (295K, HPL 0W30 Euro)
    2002 V70-T5 (225K, IPD bars, Bilsteins)
    2001 V70-T5 (125K, IPD downpipe, cat back and other mods)
    1932 Packard Sedan (straight 8, dual sidemounts, original paint and interior, Shell Rotella 15W40)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    10

    Default

    I have a 2001 volvo V70 XC with about 150,000 miles on it. A few months ago, the check engine light came on, though at the time I assumed it had to do with emissions, since I'd just replaced another emissions part a month before. A couple months later, coming back from a two hour highway drive in what passes for summer in Northern Minnesota, the transmission service required warning came on, and the vehicle dropped into limp home mode.

    Until it did that, it showed no notable change in shifting or performance, and hadn't given me any cause for concern over the drive. I sidelined it until I had time to work on it, pulled the trouble codes, and received a P0740. Based on what I saw on here, and other forums, it looked like dirty, or old transmission fluid was the cheap repair to start with.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    10

    Default

    So, my father did his own research, and bought Valvoline transmission fluid. The part number that kicks out as being the right fluid is shown on the back of the bottle. He did the flush, per what we'd read on here, and see in in youtube videos, and he got fluid back that matched the color of the new fluid. The fluid wasn't overly dark and didn't smell burned.

    I drove it about 50 miles around the area, noticing small slips and delays which hadn't been there before. Then I drove it to work in the rain. It wouldn't stay in high gear, kept downshifting, and then dropped into limp home mode again.

    I haven't moved it since.

    Is it possible that incorrect transmission fluid is making the problem worse? Or did the rain make something more obvious?

    Does this cascade of problems sound like a transmission failure, or could replacing the valve body or solenoids be a viable solution?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Virginia Beach
    Posts
    4,116

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    Too hard to tell without hooking the car up...Maxlife label says that it's "suitable for use in" our transmissions. JWS-3309 specification. But that is a whole different thing than being approved fluid. Max life is NOT approved for this transmission. Approval comes from the manufacturer. Valvoline makes the claim that Max Life is "suitable for"...and maybe it is...and maybe it isn't...

    So, the Mobil 3309 is what I recommend. The Toyota T-IV is also recommended. Both fluids meet Aisin's specifications and both are actually approved. The Mobil 3309 has a 100C viscosity of 7.1 CsT. The Max Life has a 100C viscosity of 5.9. That's not a huge difference, but the Max life is a low viscosity fluid. If your transmission was on its last legs, putting a LV fluid in it sure won't help.

    A better choice, from Valvoline, is their Import Multi Vehicle ATF. Synthetic base stock. Also claims to be "suitable for use in" JWS-3309 transmissions, and has a 100C viscosity of 6.9 CsT. Much closer to the actual JWS-3309 fluid. I've used the Import Multi Vehicle ATF with excellent results in both of my Volvos.

    But, and this is important, have you checked the fluid level? I've seen dozens of posters on this forum alone who changed/flushed the luid and then did not get the level correct.

    There is a cold range and a hot range on the dipstick. About 200ml between low and high within those ranges. Very, very easy to get the fluid level wrong.

    So, drive it at least 20 minutes, leave it idling, in park, on dead-level ground, and then, and only then, pull the dipstick, clean it, then re-insert and pull it again.

    Report back with that result.

    Then we can go from there...
    Current Fleet:
    2016 Tundra Crewmax 4WD 1794
    2005 MB S600 (126K, Michelin AS4, HPL 0W40)
    2005 MB SL600 (55K Michelin AS4, Mobil 1 0W40)
    2004 V70R (143K, six speed M66, HPL 5W40)
    2004 XC90 (235K, HPL 0W30 Euro)
    2002 V70-XC (295K, HPL 0W30 Euro)
    2002 V70-T5 (225K, IPD bars, Bilsteins)
    2001 V70-T5 (125K, IPD downpipe, cat back and other mods)
    1932 Packard Sedan (straight 8, dual sidemounts, original paint and interior, Shell Rotella 15W40)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Western Head, Nova Scotia
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    3,089

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    Quote Originally Posted by Astro14 View Post
    Too hard to tell without hooking the car up...Maxlife label says that it's "suitable for use in" our transmissions. JWS-3309 specification. But that is a whole different thing than being approved fluid. Max life is NOT approved for this transmission. Approval comes from the manufacturer. Valvoline makes the claim that Max Life is "suitable for"...and maybe it is...and maybe it isn't...

    So, the Mobil 3309 is what I recommend. The Toyota T-IV is also recommended. Both fluids meet Aisin's specifications and both are actually approved. The Mobil 3309 has a 100C viscosity of 7.1 CsT. The Max Life has a 100C viscosity of 5.9. That's not a huge difference, but the Max life is a low viscosity fluid. If your transmission was on its last legs, putting a LV fluid in it sure won't help.

    A better choice, from Valvoline, is their Import Multi Vehicle ATF. Synthetic base stock. Also claims to be "suitable for use in" JWS-3309 transmissions, and has a 100C viscosity of 6.9 CsT. Much closer to the actual JWS-3309 fluid. I've used the Import Multi Vehicle ATF with excellent results in both of my Volvos.

    But, and this is important, have you checked the fluid level? I've seen dozens of posters on this forum alone who changed/flushed the luid and then did not get the level correct.

    There is a cold range and a hot range on the dipstick. About 200ml between low and high within those ranges. Very, very easy to get the fluid level wrong.

    So, drive it at least 20 minutes, leave it idling, in park, on dead-level ground, and then, and only then, pull the dipstick, clean it, then re-insert and pull it again.

    Report back with that result.

    Then we can go from there...
    Just a point that MaxLife is also synoil. Also if a manufacturer specifies that a system, engine, gearbox, etc. is designed to operate within design parameters using a lubrication fluid of "x" spec and if the fluid manufacturer specifies that their particular fluid is made to "x" spec, then you have a match you can use. Kind of the whole point of having defined engineering specs and organizations like SAE, JWS or ISO. And fluid manufacturers determine if their product is to spec by testing to standardized ASTM tests that all manufacturers use in their verification processes. Now a vehicle OEM will only "license", "approve" or "bless" certain actual products for the same reason they do anything else, financially, as long as the product is to spec. They cut deals with their suppliers and by keeping their supplier list reasonably tight, they can then go out to the buyers of their cars, tell them to use a certain set of lubricants and that will keep things within the warranty terms and keep their suppliers happy by basically promoting a certain product line (not necessarily the "best" line). In terms of "ideal" tranny fluid, you would think that the Asin fluid would be that since Asin is the maker of the box. But, and just with Volvo-labelled fluid, Asin does not manufacture tranny fluid and sources their fluid from someone else (Idemitsu, Mobil?) or more likely, multiple sources. So in the end, as long as the fluid has documentation that it meets the design spec as called for by the manufacturer of the component, there you go.

    And on the subject of level checking, I use VIDA to verify trans-oil temp, then using the chart in VIDA (temp vs. dipstick) I use a plastic graduated cup to put in a fairly exact amount of fluid as required. Works pretty well since Volvo, or actually Asin in their infinite wisdom, made the difference between low and high on the stick only 200ml. But hey, at least there is a stick....

    Cheers,

    Bill
    Western Head, NS CDN

    '08 BMW 750i (Black Sapphire)-204K kms to-date
    '05 XC70 (Lava Sand)-296K kms to-date
    '02 V70XC-gone @393K kms
    '05 V70R (Magic Blue)-120K mi to-date - gone
    '96 854R (Red)-real CDN-spec 5-speed R - gone @270k kms
    And other Volvos and misc. Euro stuff

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Virginia Beach
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    4,116

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    I know that the Max Life is a synthetic base stock. Ashland (Valvoline) makes good products. That's not really my point. My point is that your highest chance of success is the use of the fluid that best meets specifications. If you've got an old transmission, with unknown wear, and then you use a fluid with different viscosity than specified, you're introducing a variable that may result in problems.

    Problems like the OP is experiencing.


    In the interest of fuel economy, we've seen oil viscosity specifications get lower (my Tundra specifies a 0W20, for example) and we've seen transmission fluid viscosity specifications follow the same trend.

    Toyota's WS is an LV fluid, lower than T-IV that preceded it. GM's Dexron VI is an LV fluid, lower than the Dexron III that preceded it.

    Max Life has always been marketed towards older cars - and years ago, Max Life met the exact Dex III and T-IV viscosity specifications. Now, Max Life is an LV fluid. "Older" cars of today, that is, cars with greater than 75,000 miles, the Max Life target, came with the LV specified fluid, and the manufacturers have back-specified the LV fluid in older transmissions, just as they have the newer oil viscosity in older engines. Toyota, for example, now specifies Toyota Genuine Motor Oil (good stuff, by the way, 0W20, synthetic, lots of Moly) in cars all the way back to about 2007. Cars that originally specified a 5W30 are now "back-specified" to a 0W20.

    Max Life today is a different fluid than Max Life of three or four years ago. It was higher viscosity then. It's LV now.

    Mercedes has done the same thing with their transmission fluid and the specification of 236.10 for my 2005 is now superseded by a lower viscosity 236.12 - 236.17. I still look for the 236.10 fluid for my NAG-1 in that car. Incidentally, Max Life is recommended by Ashland for the 236.10 but is specifically NOT recommended for the 236.12, 236.14 and 236.15 in California because it doesn't meet the viscosity requirements. In other words - it's too thick, and could affect fuel economy, so California won't allow it.

    And that's evidence of what I'm saying - the fluids like Max Life are "recommended for use in" by Ashland, but they may not be precisely what the manufacturer specified.

    Further, even Ashland themselves state "Valvoline has conducted extensive in house testing, independent lab testing and field testing to support Max Life performance in the broadest range of transmissions, however; It should be noted that Max Life ATF is not an OEM licensed product. The respective vehicle manufacturers have neither evaluated nor endorsed Max Life in these applications."

    https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publi...2-ac162d889bd1

    And that's the point: it's a generic formula - intended to meet a wide range of specifications, and doesn't have manufacturer approval.

    Mobil 3309 does have the manufacturer's approval.


    Mercedes, for example, does do the testing, and does state, quite clearly, which fluids meet with their approval, for their multitude of specifications. E.G.

    https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevol...236.11_en.html


    I'm not saying that Max Life will cause failure in this transmission. Folks have used it with success. But it's not the same fluid that it was a few years ago. The specifications on Max Life have changed.

    It's also, as a result, not my first choice for this transmission, not since Ashland reduced the viscosity to meet the new LV specifications of many manufacturers. Even though they still recommend it for a JWS-3309, there are better choices, including Ashland's own Import Multi Vehicle ATF, which retains the higher viscosity, and has a synthetic base, and can be bought at my local parts store.

    https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publi...2-ac162d889bd1

    That's what I've currently got in my 2002 XC. 2002, one of the model years that was known for terrible transmissions. My transmission is original, shifts perfectly, and has 238,000 miles on it.
    Current Fleet:
    2016 Tundra Crewmax 4WD 1794
    2005 MB S600 (126K, Michelin AS4, HPL 0W40)
    2005 MB SL600 (55K Michelin AS4, Mobil 1 0W40)
    2004 V70R (143K, six speed M66, HPL 5W40)
    2004 XC90 (235K, HPL 0W30 Euro)
    2002 V70-XC (295K, HPL 0W30 Euro)
    2002 V70-T5 (225K, IPD bars, Bilsteins)
    2001 V70-T5 (125K, IPD downpipe, cat back and other mods)
    1932 Packard Sedan (straight 8, dual sidemounts, original paint and interior, Shell Rotella 15W40)

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