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Thread: ETM Cleaning Procedure???

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Default ETM Cleaning Procedure???

    Is cleaning the Electronic Throttle Module difficult? Any detailed DIY procedure will be great!

  2. #2
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    Default Cleaning didn't help me

    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    Is cleaning the Electronic Throttle Module difficult? Any detailed DIY procedure will be great!
    When my 2001 V70 T5's ETM was causing errors, cleaning (suggested by Volvo during the early days of the ETM problem before they had the software upgrade) didn't help me. The spring loaded tension on the ETM butterfly was far greater than any oil residue could interfere with its operation (oil probably originating from the turbo charger seals and passing through the intercooler to the ETM on the way to the intake manifold)

    If you are having the faults codes that are related to your ETM. Probably best get the new software.

    If you are still interesting in cleaning, here are the directions. Its a bit of work.

    http://www.volvoxc.com/resources/how..._procedure.pdf

    http://www.volvoxc.com/resources/how...y_cleaning.pdf

    http://www.box.net/shared/cjh7pkl0cs

    Need a new gasket (I think it was $10 at the Volvo dealer) that goes between the ETM and the intake manifold.

    Here is a whole thread I posted when I did this. This was all before Volvo's new ETM software upgrade which was the real fix by making the ETM work a lot longer.

    http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/index...opic=34052&hl=
    SOLD 2001 V70XC @123k 20mpg. No more Volvos due to shift to better gas mileage
    SOLD 2001 V70 T5 @132k 22mpg.
    2013 Tesla Model S 85kWHr 14k miles 90 eMPG. Best car ever
    2011 Toyota Prius Model2 45k 60mpg
    2001 VW Golf GLS 1.8T Auto 143k Fahrvergnügen but only 23mpg
    http://freewebs.com/howardsvolvos/

  3. #3
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    Default

    I just got back from my local Swedish shop after reporting the sticky throttle coming back again, and they said that it was dirty and needed to be cleaned again. This ETM was recently replaced (two year ago?) under recall program by the dealer. I just called the dealer and they said the that ETM is warranted to 200K miles, so I'm bringing it back to them for diagnosis/repair.

    When was the ECM upgrade added? Is this the "real" fix? Could I have missed that somehow when the ETM was replaced?

  4. #4
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    Default why sticky so quickly

    Quote Originally Posted by sejman View Post
    I just got back from my local Swedish shop after reporting the sticky throttle coming back again, and they said that it was dirty and needed to be cleaned again. This ETM was recently replaced (two year ago?) under recall program by the dealer. I just called the dealer and they said the that ETM is warranted to 200K miles, so I'm bringing it back to them for diagnosis/repair.

    When was the ECM upgrade added? Is this the "real" fix? Could I have missed that somehow when the ETM was replaced?
    I never had an ECM software upgrade on this car (I'm not aware there are any upgrades here). I only noted in my ETM cleaning write up that the bad acting ETM was causing my ECM to go into a low power mode (seems like the engine had retarded timing). When I got the new ETM with the new ETM software loaded, it didn't automatically cause the ECM to return to a more optimal performance mode. Maybe it would have eventually. But I just did a simple ECM reset and got it all back to running perfect. It has been running perfect for over 30k miles now.

    As for why your ETM butterfly would stick after just 2 years. I wonder if you have some other problems instead. When you take off the turbo pipe over the top of the engine, you can see oil collected on the seams of the rubber connector at top of the turbo. Both my 01 XC70 and 01 V70 had this. I'm guessing the turbo has seals that leaks ever so light amount of oil (remember turbo needs oil to spin, and really good synthetic oil at that for such high RPM) into the air intake path. Certainly my ETM (>=40k miles at the time of cleaning) has barely tiny bit of film of oil on the butterfly and its rotational mount. Definitely not enough to stick it.

    If indeed your problem can be improved by ETM cleaning after only 2 years. I wonder what is causing it to get dirty so quickly.
    SOLD 2001 V70XC @123k 20mpg. No more Volvos due to shift to better gas mileage
    SOLD 2001 V70 T5 @132k 22mpg.
    2013 Tesla Model S 85kWHr 14k miles 90 eMPG. Best car ever
    2011 Toyota Prius Model2 45k 60mpg
    2001 VW Golf GLS 1.8T Auto 143k Fahrvergnügen but only 23mpg
    http://freewebs.com/howardsvolvos/

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Austin, TX
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    Default

    I asked my local shop the same question (why dirty so quickly) and they said that everything leading into the throttle body needs to be cleaned up, including intake piping and PCV, etc. and that the dealer probably did not thoroughly clean all this up in their hurry to swap the ETM.

    My question about the software upgrade comes from reading your post that all this cleaning was a waste of time and that there was a software update to correct the problem. I'm curious when this software update came along and how to know if I already have it.

    Either way, I'd just like to be better armed when facing the dealer and local shop on this issue. Is there a REAL fix or is all this ETM stuff just continued band-aid fixes that have to be addressed every couple of years?

  6. #6
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    Default

    New software seems to be available in 11/2006. See here

    http://vexedvolvo.org/

    If your ETM was replaced before this, you have the old software. Definitely get the new one. I don't know the software part number. You might search around the net.
    SOLD 2001 V70XC @123k 20mpg. No more Volvos due to shift to better gas mileage
    SOLD 2001 V70 T5 @132k 22mpg.
    2013 Tesla Model S 85kWHr 14k miles 90 eMPG. Best car ever
    2011 Toyota Prius Model2 45k 60mpg
    2001 VW Golf GLS 1.8T Auto 143k Fahrvergnügen but only 23mpg
    http://freewebs.com/howardsvolvos/

  7. #7
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    Default

    Thanks - that link was excellent. It doesn't really make me feel any better though. Clearly, the cleaning procedure is just a side issue...probably not a bad thing to keep things nice and clean around the throttle body, but totally unrelated to the wear of the throttle body position sensors, which are totally isolated and protected from the oil build-up inside the throttle body itself.

    As an engineer myself, I am shocked that this design made it into a production car. This kind of wiping potentionmeter design is appropriate for toys (the kind of thing you would see in an Nintendo controller joystick) - not an integral part of the control system for a 200HP engine propelling a 3000lb+ vehicle with human occupants. My guess is that they felt that the redundant sensors (one at each end of the shaft) provided some additional reliability, but they are not using different sensing technologies, so they are wearing at the same rate - not redundant at all.

    It seems that the ETM software update's value is to provide better forewarning of the sensor wear issue, hopefully improving the safety of the system. If anything, it should expose the wearing problem earlier when it is intermittent, whereas the older software seems to ignore the intermittent readings and try to work around them until things go very wrong.

    Regarding the oil build-up, I have a '98 Saab Turbo (with a good old mechanically actuated throttle) and it has very little oil build-up inside it - just a very thin film that you can feel with your finger. Oil definitely makes it into the airflow from the turbo over time, but it tends to collect on the inside of the piping from the turbo, inside the intercooler (the air has to make it through a maze of small passages through the intercooler), and from the intercooler back up to throttlebody. I have not personally inspected the throttlebody on the Volvo (yet), but I'm also confused as to why they seem to get so dirty - I think it may be part of the whole strategy to delay dealing with the real ETM problem - the position sensors.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Toronto, ON Canada
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    Default

    Here's a solution my engineer friend.

    Don't use the throtle so much It will wear out if you do.

    Is this the first thing you found in the automotive industry that you think shouldn't have hit production? I have a list myself. BTW, Volvo is not the only one that uses something like this, Honda does it, GM does it, and so does Ford, and that's just the ones I know for a fact. Diff is none of those require you to replace the whole thing, just the 20 -50$ part that wears out.

    Quote Originally Posted by sejman View Post
    Thanks - that link was excellent. It doesn't really make me feel any better though. Clearly, the cleaning procedure is just a side issue...probably not a bad thing to keep things nice and clean around the throttle body, but totally unrelated to the wear of the throttle body position sensors, which are totally isolated and protected from the oil build-up inside the throttle body itself.

    As an engineer myself, I am shocked that this design made it into a production car. This kind of wiping potentionmeter design is appropriate for toys (the kind of thing you would see in an Nintendo controller joystick) - not an integral part of the control system for a 200HP engine propelling a 3000lb+ vehicle with human occupants. My guess is that they felt that the redundant sensors (one at each end of the shaft) provided some additional reliability, but they are not using different sensing technologies, so they are wearing at the same rate - not redundant at all.

    It seems that the ETM software update's value is to provide better forewarning of the sensor wear issue, hopefully improving the safety of the system. If anything, it should expose the wearing problem earlier when it is intermittent, whereas the older software seems to ignore the intermittent readings and try to work around them until things go very wrong.

    Regarding the oil build-up, I have a '98 Saab Turbo (with a good old mechanically actuated throttle) and it has very little oil build-up inside it - just a very thin film that you can feel with your finger. Oil definitely makes it into the airflow from the turbo over time, but it tends to collect on the inside of the piping from the turbo, inside the intercooler (the air has to make it through a maze of small passages through the intercooler), and from the intercooler back up to throttlebody. I have not personally inspected the throttlebody on the Volvo (yet), but I'm also confused as to why they seem to get so dirty - I think it may be part of the whole strategy to delay dealing with the real ETM problem - the position sensors.

  9. #9
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    Default

    No - it's certainly not the first example of poor engineering I've seen, but it is one of the most egregious. I'd love to see the original reliability test plan and results for that sensor (if one even exists). It's just such an obviously stupid thing to do! Again, it's a clever and very low cost way to achieve position sensing for a cheap consumer product...but for an engine control?

    Most of the silly engineering decisions that I've identified (or heard about) are more superficial. Others have to do with crazy amounts of work to reach and replace a simple replaceable component. Still others have to do with funny trade-offs between cost/performance that leave you scratching your head. This one just seems so predictable and core the car's reliability and safety that it's hard to see how it got past everyone.

    Anyway - it's kind of surprising and a shame that Volvo hasn't created a bolt-on replacement TB that uses a more appropriate non-contact sensor or at least a new version that has the replaceable sensors as you describe below.

  10. #10
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    Aug 2007
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    Namibia
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    Default

    I'm always very suspicious of a "software" fix that is used to correct what is at its core a hardware problem.

    Typically, when I have seen software fixes of this type, they are usually just making the making the fault parameter settings wider, so its harder to set a code.

    The core problem is still there, but the software is used to band-aid the problem.

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