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mtndave
07-12-2009, 06:03 AM
HELP!!

I drove our '03 XC70 last night after it sat for a week, and the turn signals don't work. After stopping and restarting, the signals worked for about 2 blinks, each direction, then stopped. There is no message shown on the message screen.

Even more perplexing, I looked for fuse and relay locations and didn't see anything listed.

Anyone else have this experience?

billr99
07-12-2009, 06:18 AM
Check all the related bulbs first, of course; but sounds like a relay to me. I don't have my copy of VADIS handy right now, but I think that relay is on the panel in the drivers foot well. Probably need VADIS to verify which one as there are a number of relays and shunts on that panel.

Cheers,

Bill

Willy
07-12-2009, 07:20 AM
Some info.
Willy

Aviator
07-13-2009, 02:45 PM
Sounds like the flasher (a relay) itself crapped out.......do the four way flashers work?

Dave.

Willy
07-14-2009, 01:57 AM
I think the XC doesn't have a flasher relay in the true sense of the word, from the
wiring diagram it looks like the turn signals are generated by the CEM instead.
Willy

billr99
07-14-2009, 06:17 AM
I think the XC doesn't have a flasher relay in the true sense of the word, from the
wiring diagram it looks like the turn signals are generated by the CEM instead.
Willy

Maybe there are differences amongst MY, but when I activate my signals, and e-flasher too for that matter, I hear the click of a relay. Of course, that does not mean that there couldn't be a relay hard wired to a board, but that panel (CEM?) in the footwell where the headlight shunts are has quite a few replaceable relays on it. I've just never stuck my head in there when the relays are going to see if I could figure out what is what. May later years are different, but I'm betting that the relay is bad and its on that panel and replaceable.

Jeez, I've really stuck it out there on this one!:D

Cheers,

Bill

Willy
07-14-2009, 07:46 AM
The CEM (Central Control Module) is located under the hood, somewhat at the opposite site from the air inlet filter (also in a black housing).
I can't say if there are differences between My's, the wiring diagram I posted is for MY 2003 and there are no relays in that diagram.
Willy

billr99
07-14-2009, 11:35 AM
The CEM (Central Control Module) is located under the hood, somewhat at the opposite site from the air inlet filter (also in a black housing).
I can't say if there are differences between My's, the wiring diagram I posted is for MY 2003 and there are no relays in that diagram.
Willy
In VADIS the only reference I can find as to relays is in the "Relays, Fuses and Wiring" section within the Electrical System function area. In there, it refers to an overhead car diagram with the CEM located at position # 2 described as "2.Relay box in the passenger compartment, central electronic module (CEM)". Also if you take a look at the top picture here (http://www.xenonvalot.com/xenonfixvolvo.html) you will see a number of small black boxes as well as two silver boxes on a panel referred to as the CEM. These are the relays/panel I'm referring to and this panel is located above the drivers feet (LHD Cars, of course) in the foot well . In my experience, turn signal and e-flasher relays are typically housed in the metal-cased silver boxes, but I'm not confident enough to say these shown are the culprits we are talking about here. Also assuming that all the bulbs and associated connections are sound, you should be able to get the e-flasher to work even if the turn signals work as they are controlled by separate relays. However, if something has gone pear-shaped in the CEM, who knows. In any event, he should check the easy stuff first; bulbs, bulbs seating properly in their sockets, then relays.

Cheers,

Bill

Willy
07-15-2009, 10:40 AM
The slim items in the relay box are, as can be seen from the wiring diagram and read from the website you refer to, resistors wired as a shunt, not relays like the more voluminous items in the box. If they were relays, their schematic symbol would show a coil and contacts. This can also be seen in the attached (partial) component list.
Referring to the schematic diagram for the turn signals, item 20/32 and 20/34 are listed as shunts, not relays. Of course this does not mean the shunts can't be the problem, although it would be rather uncommon if the shunts for both left and right turn indicators would show the same problem.
For a good insights in the electrics/electronics of the XC, Vadis is not the right source, yopu need the complete wiring diagrams for that. They contain all relevant information, including connector layouts, component locations etc.
If you like to have the (pdf) file (MY2003), let me know, I will then upload it to Sendspace and post the link here (the file is too big for email)
Willy

billr99
07-15-2009, 11:18 AM
Hmmm, yep, I see what you mean now. I stand corrected. Those bloody wiring diagrams are so complicated to try and interpret this stuff is difficult. Be nice if they would put the component keys with the diagrams (at least in the copy I have).

Any road, it does appear that they now split the circuit left and right versus indicators and e-flasher like in the older models. As far as getting back to the original problem, it appears that the fix is a heck of a lot more difficult and hence expensive than if the more traditional designs would have still been used as it now points, as you have suggested, more to the CEM. :( In any event, a trip to the dealer to see what the CEM looks like programmatically probably would be a good step.

Good luck,

Bill

Willy
07-15-2009, 11:24 AM
Indeed, the wiring diagrams are not always straightforward to interpret, but taken into account that this is a quite complex car,
I think this may be inevitable. But the diagrams are DIN "compatible" possibly making them "uneasy" to read for non-Europeans :o

Meanwhile, I have uploaded the wiring diagrams, this link should allow any one interested to download the file:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/y3r5rv
Willy

billr99
07-15-2009, 11:31 AM
Indeed, the wiring diagrams are not always straightforward to interpret, but taken into account that this is a quite complex car,
I think this may be inevitable. But the diagrams are DIN "compatible" possibly making them "uneasy" to read for non-Europeans :o

Meanwhile, I have uploaded the wiring diagrams, this link should allow any one interested to download the file:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/y3r5rv
Willy
Ah yes, once again I point back to the "good old days" of my Series 2A Land Rover with points, condenser, and a two-fuse electrical system. That thing was so basic I don't think it had a wiring diagram. :D Too bad the auto world had grown all sophisticated (sort of).

BTW, thanks for putting up the diagrams. I need to make sure I have the latest. Maybe they are more-readable than what I have on file.

Thanks,

Bill

redex
07-15-2009, 05:06 PM
Hmm..I have a similiar problem, it started with the turn signals. I did'nt see them coming on on the instrument panel and there was no sound (click...click) :p but when checked outside they functioned like normal i.e. they flash with all bulbs working. Then the instrument panel itself started to drop out. No lights in the panel and no speedometer or any meter working for that matter, like it was resetting itself over and over again. All lights then popped in and the fasten seat belts and all lights came on like when key is first turned before starting. Then it simply went out and now only drops in every now and then for a short period of time.

Haven't found any solution yet but the thing is that everything works fine. So I'm thinking it's just a bad connection of some sort to the dashboard. And VADIS isn't exactly the best program user friendly wise hehe. Still trying to find the damn dashboard and the layout of harnesses coming to and from the instrument panel.

And not to forget the SRS Urgent service warning that popped up last week, I found that in VADIS and I'm going to try to fix that with every precaution taken of course.

Sorry for any typos, I'm a foreigner for crying out loud... so plz bare with me :)

Regards
Siggi

mtndave
07-15-2009, 07:05 PM
Update-the bulbs are fine, 4way flashers work fine, so I had the turn signal switch replaced by the dealer. Signals then worked initially, but not consistently. The technician will be looking further into possible short or connection problem on the return visit.

Thanks for the ideas and downloads! I'll update this post when the problem is finally solved.

Willy
07-16-2009, 04:32 AM
The turn signal commands are communicated to the CEM by another module, not hardwired directly to the CEM from the switches (see the wires at the CEM encircled by a figure 8) Since the switch(es) are replaced, perhaps it is time to look at the communication.
If I am not mistaken, then the dealer can command the turn signals from his service computer, not by using the turn switch, but by commanding the CEM via the CAN bus to activate the turn signal. Doing this test could be useful, the hazard flashers work, the hazard flasher switch is hardwired to the CEM, the turn switch is replaced, so perhaps the communication of the turn command to the CEM is unreliable (could be a connector). Just a thought...
Willy

Aviator
07-16-2009, 07:21 AM
Is there a seperate flasher relay for turn signals and 4 way flashers? Some cars employ two seperate flashers for this purpose. I have even seen the 4 way flasher switch being the problem for the turn signals not working.

Dave.

Willy
07-16-2009, 09:18 AM
There is no separate flasher relay for the 4 way flashers. In fact, there is no flasher relay at all.
If you take a look at the schematic drawing of the turn indicators, you can see that the 4 way
flashers are activated by the same outputs (20/32 and 20/34) as the turn indicators.
The difference is that the command to activate the 4 way flashers is given to the CEM by a
hardwired switch (item 3/6) whereas the command to activate the turn signals is communicated
by CAN bus to the CEM (lines B17/18 and/or D2/D3)
Willy

mtndave
07-17-2009, 09:09 PM
The saga continues-the turn signal switch is fine, the fault is in the Driver Information Module, according to the service manager. The part costs $1100 + labor.

According to another local Volvo technician that I spoke with today, he is having to replace these frequently in this model Volvo. I asked this technician what other major problems could be expected on this car, and his quick answer was that he was replacing a lot of ABS control modules, as well.

I know these are great cars, and that they are complex and can be expensive to maintain, but DAMN! This BITES!

Willy
07-18-2009, 12:47 AM
I was getting afraid it would be something like this (see my previous reply). Although it is impossible
to say if it is indeed the DIM module, this can explain what happens (faulty communication).
Perhaps you can try to make a kind of "fair trade deal" with your dealer about what will happen if it
turns out that the problem remains after the DIM module is replaced.
Willy

mtndave
07-18-2009, 08:07 AM
Thanks for that tip-I will talk with the service manager early Monday a.m.!

Willy
07-18-2009, 09:40 AM
I still keep thinking about a bad connection somewhere, the communication from the DIM to the CEM seems not to be dead but faulty.
The CEM can't be reseated just like that, a special puller is needed. But since the CEM sits vertically into its connector perhaps the chance of a bad connection at that end is not very big (although, compare with a PC, where RAM fault often can be solved simply by reseating the RAM module(s) or where a dead PC can be revived by pulling out everything and putting it all back into place).
But perhaps it is feasable to unplug and reseat the connector at the DIM side, it is not impossible to remove the DIM, I attach the procedure to do so.
In any case, I would ask the dealer to try the reseating tric, provided the tool is available, it will only take a minute at the CEM side and when removing the DIM the technician will have to unplug the connector anyway (it find the thought that if it is a bad connection at the DIM, and that perhaps it is solved after the DIM is replaced at high cost while you would never know it is just the connection, very disturbing)
Willy

mtndave
07-22-2009, 07:25 PM
Good idea-the service manager called today after the car was scheduled to be complete. The DIM did not arrive, is on "national backorder", and won't be available until August 3. This tells me that there is huge demand for this part, overwhelming the normal inventory in distribution centers/warehouses. We asked the serv. mgr. if there is a recall planned, but he had no idea on that.

In addition to the expense, this has become a PITA, but we are grateful that the dealer is letting us keep the loaner car.

mtndave
08-08-2009, 07:38 PM
Finally!!! The turn signal problem is fixed. It was a faulty DIM, replaced by the dealer ($1150 + labor). The real problem that surprised me was that the part was on "national-level backorder" due to demand. The car was out of service for exactly one month while we waited on the part!!!

Thanks for the pointers and advice.

Willy
08-09-2009, 02:18 AM
Good to hear the problem is solved, but what a costly repair, ouch :eek:
Willy

XCLA
08-10-2009, 06:07 PM
I'm having an emerging problem this year with the left turn indicator not giving an audio or visual cue that it's on unless the interior of the car is warmed up. I've been applying a little extra nudge to the turn stick to get the thing to give me the cues when the interior is cold, but there's a distraction, delay, and safety impact in doing that, it doesn't always work, and it's happened to the right turn indicator once or twice too.

Thanks to your inputs, I think I know better what to look for in a solution.

Crossing my fingers that it's just something that needs reseating, and that it isn't the DIM!

'02 XC70 120K miles

redex
08-17-2009, 04:38 PM
Hi guys, I've been searching for the solution for this problem for some time now and faulty DIM's keep popping up.

I ripped the damn thing out and diassembled it and the turn signal relay or what you would like to call it is hardwired to the board, one guy resoldered the DIM and solved this problem, SRS airbag service urgent is again a common message with faulty DIM's.

I'm going to try to find someone here (Iceland) to resolder my DIM before turning to these guys who remanufacture the board with one year guaranty http://www.bba-reman.com/us/index.aspx for apparantly under 200$

P.S. They probably just resolder it anyway :D

regards

RedX